Mark Burik (00:00.878)
Hey guys, Coach Matt here. Just wanted to drop a quick intro to the podcast you're about to listen to. By the way, thank you so much for listening. It means a lot to us and we are so grateful for you guys that tune in every week. This podcast was filmed with Avery Drost. Been at AVP Pro for about 12 years now. He made his first main draw in 2010, but then his first time being auto into the main draw, which means he didn't have to qualify, was back in 2012.
And so we got to learn about the process of him becoming an AVP pro and what that looked like and the grind that that was and what it took. He shared a little bit about some struggles that he had in the beginning and then also how to be an awesome partner. That's one big thing I took away from this conversation is what it looks like to be a partner that anybody would love to play with. So thanks for tuning in. I hope you guys get as much as I do out of it. Enjoy the podcast.
just turned 38 years old the other day and I've been playing on the Pro Tour since I first really pushed it when I was, was probably about 2010 when I was recently out of college and then by the time it was about 2012 I've been at it just about full time since then. So I've played through a few different iterations of the AVP and with the USA volleyball program and got to travel the world quite a bit.
and play on the AVP with a lot of great guys and thank God it's still going. I've been playing with Phil Dollhouser the last couple of years. We're going into the AVP league starting in for us and not this weekend, but the next in Miami. And just been super blessed to have a beach volleyball career for quite a while and a family. I've got my wife, Ali, who's been a rock for me my whole.
whole life in volleyball. I've been married 12 years. We have three little kids. I have a daughter, Blake, who just turned eight years old the other day. I have a son, Micah, who's five. And then another little girl who's about one and a half named Jane. Wow. So that's been my life in volleyball and my life off the court. And they're still going strong. I live in North Redondo, so South Bay. For quite a while, I've been in South Bay since I finished college in Santa Barbara.
Mark Burik (02:27.052)
Then outside of volleyball, I serve in a church and do youth middle school, high school ministry and some other some other like community development, rec programs in this area too. So kids, young people are kind of my life outside of volleyball. That's awesome. And for a while I don't still coach at the high school. Not anymore. So for for six years I coached at the public high school here in Manhattan Beach. It's called Mira Costa.
I had the boys indoor team and for a while I had the boys beach team too, which was a huge commitment that I loved and really challenging in this area. It's just a ton of competition and volleyball in this area and it was hard to manage all that. But when we had our third baby, I was pushing it so hard with everything else I was doing and coaching high school volleyball was probably like the biggest time commitment for the worst money. I had to let it go because I was never home.
And I wasn't able to really make much money with that that the family needed. So I don't do that anymore. But I coached Miracosta High School for a long time. And I was really glad for that time in my life. That was a thing I got to do. That's awesome, man. It sounds like you're just investing so much. And I guess my first question would be, what's your reset? With all that you have going on, pretty much nonstop.
What is the way that you just found a way to recoup, know, just reset after maybe a big tournament or even a big night in youth ministry, you know, like what's the reset that you go to? That's good word, a reset. I mean, I think where I'm at now, and it's been this way for a long time, but I love to be, I love to work on our house. We bought a little house in North Redondo.
2017. It's been a project and I love to, I literally love to be in my yard doing yard work, tinkering with things in the house, building up the house, doing projects. That's honestly my favorite thing to do when I've been on the road for a while is get home and like check off my, list in my house. I'm one of those dads that just gets so excited to go to Home Depot and like get a different nozzle for my hose.
Mark Burik (04:50.178)
Completely that guy at this point. I think I've been that guy for quite a while and it just continues to go that direction as I get older, but that's my where I feel I'm like at peace, you know I'm so happy to get home and catch up on my to -do list like that and and just be with my kids I love that man. I love that. That's one thing I've always looked up to you for it's just the way your dad and husband first and and
Just your balance of that. think you found such an incredible balance of that alongside of your playing career, alongside of your church career and everything else. I respect you a lot for that, man. So thank you for that. So nice to see you, bro. Thanks, dude. I'm trying to. Yeah. And obviously everybody's got their imperfections and stuff, but you seem like just the perfect dude for the position that you're in in life in general. So you're crushing it, man. Keep it up.
Well, thanks man. I think doing those things is what gets you better at them. Nobody like starts off good at that stuff and then it just comes with some time and effort. So thanks for saying that dude. I can't wait to see you do all that stuff too. Yeah, I'm just trying to follow your lead. If I'm half the father you are, I'll be stoked about that. good stuff.
But yeah, sorry, I can go on a tangent about you all day. But my next question for you is thinking about the beginning of your career. So back in 2012, when was your first main draw? When was that for you? Yeah, so the first main draw I ever made was going way back to 2010. And I got into the Santa Barbara AVP main draw in 2010. And at that time, I still live there.
I went to college at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, which is a private private Christian school in Santa Barbara. I played volleyball there, but I was still really new to it because I didn't start playing until I was about a junior in high school. It kind of like between my sophomore junior year. So, yeah, I went to a smaller college, which was great for a lot of reasons, but played at a smaller college and then really didn't play beach volleyball until I went away to college.
Mark Burik (07:10.094)
but I just was blessed to be in Santa Barbara where there was a good scene. So started learning that and it became my passion. And I graduated from school in 2008 and then I was playing in some qualifiers. I think it took four or five and then I made my first one in 2010. It wasn't until 12 though that I was kind of in the main draw without going through qualifiers.
But the very first one was 2010. Okay, who was that one with? That was with a guy named Chris Akaza. People in the South Bay would know about Chris Akaza because his dad, Sean Akaza, they call him Ish, was a great, has been like a great guy in this community, volleyball community and just the general community of the South Bay for a long time. It's a really cool story.
But yeah, Chris Nicasa is his son. He's my age. And at that time, he played his outside hitter at USC. Super undersized outside hitter. I mean, he's maybe six feet tall. And he was just an amazing flyer and so electric and really cool, too. So we had a fun time in those early years. played together. And for both of us, that was our first time in the main draw. then, yeah, Chris.
didn't play too much longer after that, but we had a lot of fun in like those early years. We were partners.
That's so cool, man. So yeah, here's a good time. The first main draw was his first two. and then it took you four or five qualifiers. That's that's pretty fast. I mean, that's regular. I think you know it was a touch easier back then because early in the beginning it was 32 team main draws. You know, like all of them were the size of Manhattan is now. So there was more people that could get through those qualifiers.
Mark Burik (09:09.582)
Yeah. And then, what happened was after 2010, the, the AVP and that iteration folded up for a while actually went bankrupt. If anybody remembers that. then in 2011, there were these carts. Karai got the Corona wide open tour going for a little while. And then there was this thing called the Jose Cuervo tour. And those two things kind of filled the gap. And shoot, was, I was playing on
in those tournaments and trying to figure it out and making it into some and not into others. And then in 2012, that's when Donald Sun and his group bought the AVP and that thing kicked off and it was under his ownership until a few years ago when Bally's got it. But then
2012 was kind of the first year I was really like in all the tournaments. Yeah, that's cool. Long time ago. Whenever you were working on, excuse me, working on breaking through. I think this is such a good question for her, like a fun question to think through. Yeah. You know, maybe somebody looking to move from beginner to intermediate or intermediate to advanced or.
even advanced to pro, you know, in some way. What do you think is the game changing thing that like or skill or something that yeah, found was the big difference jumping from level A to level B? Like, what was the upgrade that it took to be able to compete at the next level? Yeah.
Yeah, I've processed through that question with a lot of people over the years and. So I think the way it played out for me and I would say that this is probably the case for most, although not. But the way that it played out for me. Was I was training and playing with guys in Santa Barbara and that was great. I was I was making some progress there. But I had the sense that. There was.
Mark Burik (11:28.238)
For me, I needed to move down here to the South Bay to get deeper into the heart of it, to train against better and tougher guys. so part of that went hand in hand with the, I got invited to come down and train with the USA Beach. At that time it was called the, EDP. It was called Elite Development Program. And it was for guys and girls under 23 who were developing in beach volleyball. So I got invited to join up with that. And then it was decision time because
Like really long story short, I had this plan to go to law school. I had graduated with that in mind. I was working for someone who turned out to be a really scummy attorney and I was. I was hating the work I was doing and at the same time I was progressing a little in beach volleyball and people were encouraging me that maybe I had a shot to go further with it and then hand in hand that invite came for the the national team program here in the South Bay. So it was like for me.
I decided to move and that like for everyone that was, that's a big step and you know, kind of put one thing aside and I moved to the South Bay to really invest in that. And fortunately because of volleyball, I had some plugins and like some people to jump in with right away and start training. But then it was just a matter of, okay, now I was consistently.
really good, tough competition all the time. there was no shortage of it. I don't like thinking back. I don't think I would have been able to progress like that if I was still in Santa Barbara. And even that, there was a decent volleyball scene there. But for me, I had to move and that made a big difference. But I tell everyone too, and sorry not to make this like too long of an answer.
I kind of counsel younger people on this because this question comes up a lot. And one thing I tried to do was like, wanted to, for me going all in, like moving down here was a huge step. And that represented like a departure from my previous plan. But I worked at a physical therapy clinic in the evening. I worked, I used to train from in the morning early and then get
Mark Burik (13:52.59)
weights in and then I'd go work at a physical therapy clinic from like three to 10. So I had a job that I could do in the evening that was that let me train. I worked as a physical therapy aide and then a bit as a trainer. And I was I was my wife and I were dating but in 2012 we got married. So I was like I try to tell guys like going all in doesn't necessarily mean like I'm going to move somewhere and I'm going to not do any other work and I'm not going to
you know, build my other relationships and stuff like this. I'm just going to like fully go into volleyball and say like, OK, then once I make it, make it, make it, whatever that means to you, then I'll, I don't know, progress in like whatever other ways you can. For me, like going all in was a big was moving was a big part of it. But I still felt like I could develop, you know, other work and relationships. So but but I think moving was was massive.
for me coming down here. And then the other part of that, I think I can answer this quicker. So for me, that was a huge, a huge step. then the
the things that I think separate.
Qualifier players from from main draw players is a question that comes up a lot. It's I always answer that question the same way and I tell people like really really really learn how to set. Yeah, I know that that sounds crazy, I really find that when you watch some extremely athletic and explosive and talented players are like the qualifier level.
Mark Burik (15:35.15)
who play out these unbelievable rallies and you see all this athleticism on the court. But then if you're really watching from a more trained eye, you realize like these, some of these points should have been over a long time ago. But the setting isn't quite there. And I found that over the years of like watching some extremely talented guys show up and just not really quite be able to know how to put the offense together with setting. Cause you see that like not everyone sets coming out of.
indoor volleyball, only a people do. But when you see someone who can really set, it's crazy how it elevates the game and then it sort of like allows you to start playing the right way. If that makes sense. If you can't set the ball, you just can't really play the right way to begin with. So I feel like I answer this question a lot. professional level setting separates qualifying
level players from main event kind of players. And then elite blocking, I think, is the step from professional players to professional champions, if that makes sense. But we could talk about that later. Yeah. that's OK. But yeah, that's kind of just keep that. Stop that there. I love that you mentioned setting. mean, because you're going
It's very easy to point out every single skill, but setting is probably the biggest part of it. You know, you're, setting up your partner to score a point for your team. So what I heard from that is finding a bigger pond, you know, playing with better people and then just working on your setting nonstop. and I love that because setting is something that everybody can get better at. So, was just going to say that. Yeah. You don't need to be any sort of.
specimen to set the ball really, great. But you just come to understand beach setting is so situational that you got to understand how to set the ball in a trillion different scenarios. But the ones who can, they just keep beating guys who are bigger, stronger, faster. So I just recommend that to everyone. Invest in that and make yourself just.
Mark Burik (17:58.028)
Like force yourself to to not settle for anything less than like great setting and make that a huge part of your focus and suddenly these long rallies where everyone's like digging these crazy balls, but then somebody is just throwing up whatever. Turn into like somebody digs a ball and somebody sets it perfect and it's over. You understand? And then it's not like now we're not having this crazy rally anymore. Yeah, wow. As fun as the rallies are to watch.
Yeah, it makes the game go about faster for sure, much for the better. I love that. And I had a question pop up in my mind while I was listening to you. So whenever you move to the South Bay, obviously there's a ton of very good players. And obviously you had connections as your player.
that you were just a complete newbie to the area and nobody knew you, but then they figured out that you could ball. Yeah. Of volleyball. What are some key factors that you think stuck out about you that made your training partners want to invite you back? Yeah. That makes sense. Cause like so many good players there.
to where there's gotta be something specific that a lot of people look for. Like for me, whenever I was moving out, I would hear Adam Roberts say all the time, just be kind. Like you got the X factor and like you're a solid football player, but there's nine people. And so for me, that was what mine was. So what about for you? What would you say are some of those key factors that you feel like a lot of people look for to be invited into the
Better groups. Yeah, for sure. I think one thing that really helps is be diverse and what you can do. It really, really, really, really helps if you can kind of play both sides and block and defend. And that's been a huge part of my career lasting for a long time is I've done all that have blocked and defended and played both sides. So that that really helps. I mean, I'm kind of between her size and 64.
Mark Burik (20:22.838)
So I'm big enough to block, but I really put a lot of effort and energy into that. And in the beginning I was a blocker and I've, I still block all the time. so just being, you know, if somebody's like trying to figure out who they can get for training, it really helps if you're available to do whatever, you know what saying? but then the other thing I think people respect professionalism, know, like be, be, available, you know, be on time.
be workman -like, present yourself as somebody who takes it seriously.
You know, when people are like nervous, sometimes they act silly and like are kind of like making silly jokes and being a little goofy because they're just like nervous. There's just that nervous chatter that comes out. Anyway, I think, you know, now that I'm older and I go out to practice with younger players.
I definitely enjoy someone who shows up any. Doesn't feel like he needs to like break the break the tension by being silly, but he shows up and just acts like he belongs. And there's such a good like. There's such a nice there's you want that guy back so yeah, I don't know. You get you get a good feeling from guys like that, because you get a sense that they're going to get better overtime and that they enhance the practice.
So you sort of put that note in your mind, like, I would call that guy back for practice versus a guy who's kind of silly. And I don't know. That's how I am. there's others. But then, yeah, shoot. Remember that it's a small community. So man, things you do to respect your partnerships.
Mark Burik (22:28.076)
Gosh, like, you know, don't don't treat people bad in partnerships and like, you know, bail on things or throw people under the bus. my gosh. Don't be like complaining about other players. Some guy you played with last weekend. Don't let yourself be caught like tossing them under the bus and complaining about their game and how they couldn't side out or whatever, because this is such a tight world. You just don't want that out there. You know that that that's.
who you are and that's how you operate it. Really, really, really. like, yeah, summing up like what Adam said, yeah, be kind, know, shoot, do it all the time. You know, just be.
you know, talk about people as though they were standing right in front of you in the way you talk about them and be respectful of the partners and stuff that you play with because you just never know who you might end up playing with in the future. It can't predict it. Yeah, it's unreal. It really is a full circle thing. And I'm new to the scene and everything, and so I'm starting to see it, but I'm sure you
you've got tons of stories like that where maybe somebody was going to play with somebody and then, you know, this happened. And then then, I mean, it's wild. It's wild to see. Yeah, it is. As I was listening to you, I was thinking about the term imposter from popped in my mind because I feel like a lot of times there's
Like you want to feel like you belong, but that kicks in and then maybe that leads to the nervous laughing and goofing off and rather than just showing that you belong. What were some ways that you or maybe share if you're, you don't mind being vulnerable, share a time where maybe you had some imposter syndrome. Maybe it could be now in your career or in the very beginning of career.
Mark Burik (24:32.974)
You just stepped on a court and you just felt like you did not belong. And how do handle that?
Well, I'll tell you like a funny story and then like a more a real story, I guess. But a funny story that really did make me feel like like a kook when I was first out here. So there used to be this guy named Aaron Walkfogle. I don't know if anybody remembers the name Aaron Walkfogle, but he was when I first came down to the South Bay, he was in his prime as a player. He was the guy that grew up here and was really a cool guy in the community.
He was playing really well at the time on the tour, mostly with a guy named Billy Strickland. But he was also just a cool guy from this area and his family was well loved and respected in this community. But he was just kind of the guy, if that makes sense. And so like I said, was dating Ali, my wife now. We weren't married yet, but one night we were on the Hermosa Pier.
Where fat face fenders is now if you know that place there used to be like a fro -yo shop a frozen yogurt shop So I was there with my girlfriend and one of her friends so me and two girls and we're standing outside the fro -yo shop on like a Friday night and all of a sudden walk Vogel and Four or five of his bros come walking around the corner and they're on their way to go out somewhere in Hermosa like where the bars are that type of thing so they're like
walking together and I'm standing there with my frozen yogurt and my girlfriend and he's like, nice Froyo bro. they all laugh and they're like walking and laughing as they go by me. And I just kind of looked at my cup of Froyo in my hand and hung my head like, and I felt like such a, such a kook in that moment. But that, I that's just a funny story. I love that. Yeah. It was just.
Mark Burik (26:35.682)
So that's whatever, but I did feel the imposter syndrome all the time. When I would, there was something about playing against Jake Gibb early on that always made me feel that way. Cause Jake to me was always kind of the guy because I so admired how Jake had his life together off the court. In addition to how gnarly of a player he was and everything about going out to compete with Jake was what it felt like to go up against a professional. like Jake was.
always on time, always focused. He was always there with his coach, know, discussing practice and having like getting, getting the vision together. You know, he's compete against him down at Huntington Beach. He lived in Huntington and you know, he just, had the court under control from the moment you showed up. Do you understand that? What I mean when I say like he had the court under control, like he, he, his presence was
very felt the moment you showed up there.
Mark Burik (27:43.406)
I realized that showing up and competing against Jake was, it was like showing up and competing at more than just volleyball. It was like, okay, I need to demonstrate that I am also a grownup that is showing up here with the mindset of this practice is mine, not just yours. And this court is a place where I belong.
I'm not just here to be here so that you can practice. so it was cultivating that mindset was something that was happening in a lot of different ways. And you can't instantly do it, but I think that fake it till you make it is true. You can't just like...
Tell yourself to show up and have that presence one time and it's done. You have to work at that, but you have to like observe all the small ways that the best guys control the space on the court. And...
bring that yourself, you know, and whatever that means for you. I think it means things like showing up in plenty of time. I think it means things like having a plan of your own when you get there, not just showing up and being like, let's do whatever you want. It's, it's,
And then you know what? I swear it comes down to like the way you handle conversation off the court too. This is when like having cool, like mature conversation makes a difference versus like, you know, talking stupid about girls or talking stupid about whatever and you know, just like silly talk coming out of your mouth. like this is when like being able to talk about high level things with some
Mark Burik (29:49.176)
control over yourself and stuff is like, all that gives you a sense that you belong with these people, not just you belong in volleyball, but you just like belong with these type of people who are succeeding. And I don't think it's any different than like in business or anything else, you know, like you want to carry yourself a certain kind of way to have the respect of other people that are there to do something at a high level. So
Anyway, you just you just like work at that, I think. And and if if you feel like you're the small fry on the court, that's a great sign. Like you're the means you're competing against some greatness. And then you just think about how you can elevate and work at it. And then over time, it really happens. You you you need to also like be focused on like taking care of your life off the court, because you really like
If you really are being a jerk off the court, it's hard to just fake it. You have to be serious about having your life in order, I guess.
Mark Burik (31:06.326)
I want to say fake it till you make it. You know, can't like completely fake it, but you got to like continue to try. Yeah, is that is that what you're talking about? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I, think what I'm hearing is kind of convincing the guys that you belong. Yeah, yeah. Like letting people know that this is is your you know, it's not like I think you respect people and like. Like obviously you stepping on Jake Gibbs court, you're not going to be like this is what we're doing today.
you in the very beginning, maybe now it might be different, but like in the beginning, you stepping on the court with Jake give down in Huntington. If he, if you showed up and did that, I doubt, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt he would invite you back in the beginning, you know? So I think there, I think that's cool that you, there's, there's obviously a time and a place for that. And so I think that it's cool that you were
humble enough to step into that environment and then growth mindset enough to get to that point where you can be that guy on the court. And that's such a cool process. And I think we can all learn from that because there's so many different levels to that. Wherever these players are at right now, I think we have around one, two, three, four, five, six, six players from around the country in here.
And sometimes we have some in other countries as well, but they're at all different levels. And I think your story and just like the way you just talked about that can go into whatever environment there and be like, okay, if I'm stepping on the floor with this person, I need my learning ears turned on immediately. And I make sure I'm warm.
rather than warming up at four if practice is starting at four. Yeah. 350, you know, and you're ready to go. and so like touching a volleyball by four o 'clock just to honor people's time. think that goes such a Yeah. Yeah. So you know what else stands out there a lot? Sorry to cut you off. I would have said this is like, like do your very best to put away like the sorrys and my bads.
Mark Burik (33:34.274)
Because I think that's a thing that you see so often with players, if they're feeling like they might not belong or something, is apologizing for every play. And man, take Jake as a great example. I think about Jake in so many ways. Something I loved about Jake is if Jake truly made a mistake, like an actual mistake, as everyone does.
Maybe if you've ever watched him back in the day, Jake used to like clap his hands really hard and like hold them up to his face and be like, dang it. Like a big like, sorry, Casey or like whatever. Sorry, Taylor. Yeah. And, but he would, so he would like take great accountability if he made a mistake and he, gave you that great sense of like, I know I messed that up and I'm not going to do it again. He gave you that great sense. Cause
You don't like to play with someone who takes no accountability, who like sets you a garbage ball and then is just like, what's wrong with that? You don't want that. That's really annoying. But you also don't want somebody who's like, sorry, my bad, you know, all the time. So case Jake was perfect at like when he actually did something that cost you would just be like, so you take it. You knew he was pissed. You knew he was going to fix it and that it was going to be better the next time. But he didn't like do it on every play.
That's what makes that creates like a lack of confidence in the guys you're around when they're like overly sorry. So that's that's I wish I was about the beginning. Yeah, I love that you mentioned that. That's actually one of my pet peeves too. It's like anytime I'm on a court with a partner, I don't want to feel like I am holding that partner together every single play. Yeah, for sure.
be great meant like in a good spot where they know themselves as a player and they are and they know what a good rep looks like. It's very like they don't feel the need to apologize anytime I make an error. then it's like, now I got to think about one, what I did wrong. And then two, now I got to think about telling you it's not your fault because I did it. So it just adds so many extra
Mark Burik (35:54.508)
variables to think about if you have a guy like that that's playing side. So I love brought that up. That's good. You don't want to be that guy that's like laughing every time they hit a highline shot out to like, shoot my god. You know, you don't want to be that guy either. You just there's there's so many different ways to you know, this this is nuanced, right? But like, I feel like this stuff really matters when it comes to having the respective people that you're training with. And that's how
Ultimately, you get better. Yeah. Learning mindset, but also the humility to, well, obviously the growth mindset to get to the point that you're running the court, but then to also the humility to be able to step on a court that's already being run by someone is what I'm Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You kind of know when you're
in like a situation, sometimes it's not obvious, but sometimes you know there's like somebody who's kind of running the show a bit and eventually that's you and that's a whole nother conversation. absolutely. And this doesn't have anything to do with what we were just talking about, but another question that I think a lot of these people are going to start thinking about as the winter comes around, what are some things that individuals can do on their own to
continue to better their craft of beach volleyball that you found worked for you during times where you don't necessarily have access to beach volleyball and people coming to play with you. Got it. So you're talking about like off season when the weather is not permitted? Yeah, like snow, know, rain, whatever that may be. What are some ways to continue to better your craft? Yeah, well, that's man.
Hopefully I can give a good answer to this because that's an obstacle that I don't have to face very much. Thank goodness I've lived in places where I could train year round. I know that for a lot of players, that's like people get in the car and drive for hours to get to where there's some indoor sand to play on in the winter. It's really amazing how volleyball players will make it happen. But you know.
Mark Burik (38:13.974)
a huge, huge part of beach volleyball that separates people is the gym. And it's a huge deal, I think, for young players who are coming out of indoor because
Mark Burik (38:30.766)
Because we play on sand being strong and like that You can't you can't just be like As you guys know, you know like tendon tendon Explosive and stuff like that in the sense that like, you know kids are you know, 18 year olds playing indoor are explosive because they're Bouncy. It's not how it works in the sand. You have to be Like
strong under tension and muscle your way through some stuff. So obviously this is a gigantic conversation about like how you best train for beach volleyball. But I mean, there's, there's, I think that one really strong predictor of particularly young players who are becoming, trying to become good beach players is it's like, okay, are you, are you strong? Are you
because you just can't get away with being not strong physically. And then I think this applies to older players too, like, so John Hyden is someone I super admire as a player, person, everything. And Hyden, as he got older, would talk about how much more he needed the gym than he needed reps. He'd be like, OK, now I need like two days a week of reps. I need like four days in the gym. Because it was about staying.
staying strong enough to still jump in sand and to move laterally in sand and all that stuff. So I feel like we don't need to launch unless you really want to. There's so many conversations about how to train the right way. But just in a nutshell, there is definitely a time, particularly in the off season, to just get super strong because you have to be. You have to be.
You can't just be like athletic. You have to be strong to play beach volleyball. So so wait, man, just so important in the in the winter. That's music to my ears, man. I love going to the gym and getting a good look at so. I hope they take that too. Another question, and I know these are kind of bopping around a bit, but.
Mark Burik (41:00.648)
one just popped in my head about you're one of the best players in the United States and a lot people have the conversation and I'm sure you get asked about this a lot. A lot of people have the conversation of if I am goofy with it should I try to fix that and you have shown that it works just fine at the highest level and so maybe for people who are
wrestling with that question right now or maybe share some plus sides to having a goofy footed approach and maybe sometimes that it's bellied you out maybe on a set that might have missed a little bit. Yeah, well, I know that you guys probably have access to the video that I made with Mark. Long time ago, Mark wanted to make
make a video about goofy -footed approaches and we hung out and broke it all down in a video, which is really fun. So I know you guys probably have access to that. go and maybe Matt, can tell them like how to find it in the Better Beach catalog stuff. that was fun to like get into it in big detail. But the short answer, so when I first started to play volleyball, like the natural way that I jumped was goofy -footed. And if you
don't know what that is, just means you kind of lead with your, I'm right -handed, but you lead and step with your...
Mark Burik (42:37.88)
pose is left right but your left foot is in front of your of your right foot. If you can picture that. It's not the same as a lefty approach where your left foot comes down and then your right foot like swings in front of it. It's where your left foot leads and then comes down in front your right foot comes down behind it if you can so we can watch the video and see what that is but anyway that that was how I just like naturally jumped when I was
a kid and then when I started learning indoor volleyball I had to learn how to jump regular feet and the reason for that is you have to broad jump playing indoors. You know have to like take off from behind the ball and like broad jump to hit everything but especially like back row.
Aside from like I think like a couple of like total freaks in the world that that's you basically have to play indoor with regular feet, but I Still had that like goofy Technique, you know that was my in my in my mind And that that's still natural to me so when you play the left side of beach volleyball it actually helps a lot of different things and I've had this conversation a ton with most of all Phil like going back way before me and Phil played together, but
If you watch Karks Karai, you watch Phil, you watch Jose Loyola, Alex Samoilovs, and a ton of other guys on the left side play goofy footed. The cool thing that it does is when you step close goofy footed on the left, it means you're going to go straight up, which is good for beach volleyball. Broad jump, you're going to plant your feet hard and go straight up, which means you're going to get a good lift off the ground. You're not going to broad jump and slip in the sand and sink.
But it also means that you're going to be naturally open to the cross court, which is what you want to be on the left. You want to have like as a right handed player, you want to have your body open to the to the angle and then you can turn.
Mark Burik (44:39.182)
left side and then the set like drifts past you then you're like you're chasing it outside your body with that big like right foot lead and you can get kind of closed off they would call that. So goofy foot lets you basically jump from wherever you land. You can watch Troy. Troy Field does that. You jump that way and you are open automatically open. Okay so the problem is when you're on the right
and you step close goofy footed, now you're open out of bounds. You're open like off the court to the right. If you can picture that. So it makes everything really tough on the right. Cause now you can't see very well. Plus you having to hit everything like radically cross body to bring to the court. If you can visualize that. So watch the video and it can kind of like show you that. But all these guys I just mentioned, except for I think Loyola just jumped goofy footed no matter where he was on the court.
Phil, Karj, Samoyilovs, lots of others learned how to jump regular feet on the right. And then they use their goofy foot when they're on the left. And it sounds crazy, but it really is not that hard. so right now I play the right side with Phil. And whenever I play the right side, I step close regular right left. When I play the left, even when I swing around back to hit a back set, I just step close goofy footed.
And I don't think about it. It's just, I think it's something you can do. I know it will take some time and effort, but, what I tell everyone, if you are goofy footed, don't feel like you need to abandon it. You can use it on the left. I don't think you need to, like, if you don't naturally jump goofy footed, you don't need to go and force yourself to learn how to do that in addition to regular. So this is just for anyone who automatically has that as a default. You can still use that in your toolbox, but you
better make sure that if you are goofy footed, you also learn how to step regular. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And I tried to sit back in the day. I just told myself whenever I walked through a doorway, I made myself step through it and plant right left. Wow. Okay. So you did it. Wow. So you put in some time. Yeah, it probably took it probably took a few months, but not like years. Like it probably took me
Mark Burik (47:01.718)
like, I don't know, two or three months. And then it was then it was fine. So it wasn't crazy hard. The first couple of times you try to do it, you feel super ridiculous. But it's not like years and years and years. You can definitely do it. You just got to think about stepping right left. If you're if you're listening to this.
force yourself to take just a three step approach instead of a four in the beginning. So just start your approach with your right foot in front and go left, right, left. Very simple. And then over time, that step close will feel natural and then you can lengthen that out to a longer approach if you want to.
Mark Burik (47:46.058)
But there are plenty of players who play with that technique. Three step approach on the right side on the beach at a really high level. Billy Allen is one of them. You can do it. I gotta watch Billy Allen. That is one guy that I feel would be so beneficial to study his game, but I just never have. Really need to. Yeah. Yeah, it's he's so he's so consistent and.
He's got such a beautiful high line which anyone can. You know he's not. He's not a freak freak athlete so you can really learn from Billy. Nice, I'm excited to learn from him and it's been fun learning from you too. And just to chat with you a bit. I felt you too. What?
characteristics of a partner that long way obviously heard similar to training partners and the way to training groups but is there anything you would add into that the characteristics partner that you would look for? man yeah that's a huge thing and you could probably talk about it forever but
like aside from some of the volleyball stuff that we've been talking about.
Mark Burik (49:18.734)
in.
you like guys who truly
make you feel like they are still on your team 100 % even when you fail and when you lose are like pure gold. It's so rare. It's so special when you can play with a partner and you finish a match, maybe you failed somewhere along the line and you guys lost and you don't have the sense that that dude is already thinking ahead to the next person he's going to play with and not just like
turning his back on you in the moment and going down the line. It is like pure gold. If you can be that person, you are, you're just more valuable than gold in the volleyball community. It's so good. Phil is that guy, man. Phil has played so many matches with so many, you know, so many things on the line and barely got served in any of them. And so
So many games he's played where his guys had to battle the side out and maybe he does, or maybe he doesn't side out well enough to win. Man, there's 0 % of Phil projects any blame on me if we don't do well. And it's such a great feeling. It makes you feel like you would do anything to go do better next time, but it also just empowers you. So there's that and then.
Mark Burik (50:56.192)
Also be a good travel partner. Traveling with somebody that you don't enjoy traveling with is brutal. And there has to be a really cool balance of, know, learn how to be like a professional on a trip. know, gosh, it's frustrating, you know, when guys are like unreliable in their travel stuff or they have like bad habits in the stuff that they do while they're traveling.
but it's really important to know how to hang out and be loose in between stuff. And when it's time to stop talking about volleyball, stop talking about volleyball for a little bit. So that kind of partnership stuff, I mean, is clutch. I think nine times out of 10, when people talk about someone being a good partner, what they mean is a good teammate who doesn't put the blame on you. Because it's just the two of you. It's like nothing else is like this. So someone who doesn't put the blame on you.
or like drift away from after a bad game is I think that's what people generally mean when they talk about a good teammate. Most of the time, that's what they mean. It's the most important characteristic of a good teammate. And then you could also be like a trustworthy travel guy, someone who's not like dead weight to travel with, like doesn't, you know, doesn't like get their flights on time and is like, I don't know. We can talk about that later, but. Yeah.
That's like, yeah. Like when you have to be dad for your partner because they can't get their stuff together is kind of hard. Yeah. Yeah. Don't let not letting your partner pay these double B or a entry level or entry entry registration or not, you know, and then not paying things like that. Well, honestly, yeah, stupid stuff like that is really frustrating, right? Like it's so controllable.
Like if I'm signing up for a tournament and I registered for both of us and then I'm now I'm bit in a hole, you know, like I, I just paid for both of us rather than just my entry, you know? So, I mean, that's, that's small stuff that goes really far. If you're a punctual with those, like with that, with that payback, that's such a far away and it's just a respect factor in a way. think, yeah. It's just stuck you when you got to ask and like Venmo requests people. Yeah.
Mark Burik (53:24.524)
Yeah, I have to ask for that stuff. You know, it's like, man, now I got to ask him to pay me back for paying for us to play a tournament, you know, but it but it'd be so much easier if it was like, you just paid. let me pay you right now. You know, so things like that goes such a long way for for partners. So that's thanks for sharing that. And then I'm going to open it up unless you're in a hurry. Are you do you need to dip?
No, it's okay, because I'm on the phone, so I'm moving around. Nice. I'm going to open it up to everyone else. If you guys have any questions, feel free to unmute yourself and ask Avery. Avery, thank you so much, man, for your time. Totally not a problem. Yeah, I've already learned a ton. Every time I get to hang out with you, I always learn something. So thank you for that, no, you're welcome, man. Sorry, I can't get my camera on. I really can't figure it out.
I don't know why it's not working. Yeah, no worries at all. So yeah, if you guys have any questions, feel free to speak up or drop it in the chat. I think Will had one that he dropped earlier and I'll read it to you, Avery, so you don't have to look down at it. I don't even see that part. Yeah. So yeah, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. If you were to start from scratch, this is a tough question. If you were to start from scratch at 38.
Imagine you had no idea how to throw a ball, hit, approach, pass or anything and you wanted to win the Manhattan Open. How would you spend time? Still considering you have three kids and a full time -ish job that pays the bills and involvement in church. Okay, so did you say 38 so we're talking about like the age I am? Scratch, yeah. Man.
Okay, so
Mark Burik (55:27.278)
Step one, guess, in that situation, if you really don't know how to do any of those things, is first you gotta watch a lot. Because I'm learning this right now with my young kids. It really is incredible how much you can learn by just watching a lot. And I think that that is how you start anything. that's, there's a, there's a book. There's a book called Outliers.
trying to think of who wrote it. And I can't think of it. It follows communities and places in the world where people at a really high percentage come out of these communities like really great at something because of this community or possibly because of this community that they grew up in. So like great tennis players coming out of this particular part of Russia or
like these great water polo players coming out of this little area in Croatia. And there's a bunch of cool stuff about that. But then one of the key factors is young people watching something be done well from a really early age is incredible. I mean, we always talk about the success that guys like.
the crabs and try and so many others have like coming out of the Outrigger Club in Hawaii just being around it from an early age. So the early age part of it means what you're good at when you're young is observing. You're like the best you're ever going to be in your life at that time watching and you just absorb by watching. But that's literally all you do at first is you watch and it's really the same even now. If I wanted to start learning how to play something that I never did before.
you can watch and start to understand, okay, this is how it is supposed to be done. That's the first thing. And then from there, you can begin to understand, okay, how do I teach my body to do that? But you really can't do that until you understand how it's supposed to be done. So I think I would.
Mark Burik (57:45.58)
The first thing would be to watch, figure out how I could watch as much as humanly possible, particularly in real life.
and then download into your mind the right way to do it from the very beginning before you start building bad habits and before you start learning the wrong way to do it. Watch like crazy and watch only good high level stuff.
How's that? That's awesome. That's so good. think that would be really hard, dude, to win the Manhattan Open from that point. But if you started it that way, you would probably have a chance to get as good as you could possibly be.
Mark Burik (58:35.98)
Yeah, that's smart, because I feel like it's so easy because of how beautiful of a sport beach volleyball is and how fun it It's so easy to just say, I'm going in the sand and I'm playing every day. And that's the way I'm going to, you know, but just sit and watch. Yeah.
Yes. I'm watching my son right now. There's five. Absorb just an unbelievable amount of like sports ability because he loves to watch sports and he's just very good at sitting and watching. And like I spend time teaching him how to pass and whatnot. But mostly what he does is he's around us all the time on the beach and then indoors coaching and stuff like that. Like he's just watched people.
pass and handle a volleyball so much more than a normal five year old because he's just been in this all his all his life and then I go pepper with him and I see him like the ball goes over his shoulder and he like naturally turns and opens up and like steps behind him with his right foot and like plays the ball over his shoulder and I understand how hard it is to teach people that from the very beginning you know what mean yeah what and it's just but you know as soon as you see it you're like he he doesn't even know but he watched
He learned how to do that by watching and he doesn't even know it. But it's crazy how much you learn by watching. And then, you you got to teach yourself how to do it. But like, if you don't know how you're supposed to do it, then you have no chance. So you have to watch it you can get worse by going out and playing bad volleyball. You can 100 % get worse.
So watching to form to like see how it's supposed to be done is very important. I love that. So do you know Jake Elliott? I'm sure you guys have played against each other at some point. forever ago. Yeah, haven't seen him. Yeah, forever ago. But I do know Jake Elliott. Yeah. So he's from Charleston. That's where I'm living right now. He's one of the guys I'm getting out with a lot here in Charleston. just watching him.
Mark Burik (01:00:56.906)
I'm coaching with him in it. I know nothing about indoor. So I'm just so again, I'll just possible from him. And so I'm it. His wife and and so before every single practice, we'll just be peppered. And just the way he contacts the ball and everything. I feel like my contact point gets better from watching his and so does this such a cool thing that
Like just the, the being able to see something done, hear the sound. And that's so great that you mentioned being is valuable too, is like hearing the sound and just being able to stick in those two senses of each of the skin.
I see it even with his kids too. And he's similar to you where he was kind of playing alongside raising his kids. And so he's got one of his daughters off to USC University of South Carolina to play beach and indoor. And then his son Jake, he was showing us videos the other day of him and his son just peppering in the backyard when he was like six or seven.
I mean, Jake is just letting loose on him and Jacob's just scooping him really easy. And it's just, it's something that he's seen his whole life from traveling to tournaments with Jake and like, play and, and I'm like, man, that like Jacob, the funny thing is Jacob could probably never coach how. Right.
the vision of watching his dad do it over and over and over and over again. And it's just ingrained in his mind to where he doesn't know wrong. And so it's such a, it's a cool thing to be able to like learn from just watching and then just apply it right away. I love that. Yeah. I feel it works better when you're younger, but really the only difference is that your brain is just quicker.
Mark Burik (01:03:22.094)
at absorbing new stuff when you're younger. But otherwise, it's still the same thing. Like even when you're 38, you still learn by watching. It's just like, unfortunately, we don't learn like as easily and fast, but we still learn. it's still the same process. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you. We're going to respect your time and make sure you can get off in time. But John mentioned things, Avery, great conversation. Congrats on making the league.
Yeah, that's a big time accomplishment, man. I'm sure you're feeling stoked about that and ready to get it rolling. And then you said your first tournament is in two weekends in Miami. Yeah, we don't play this first week, which is at the UCLA Tennis Center. Just add, because I would have loved to play right here at home. But it kind of works out because we were playing in Hermosa this last weekend, and Phil strained a
adductor groin a little bit. We actually had to drop out of the tournament early on. We played, but in our third match he got hurt. so yeah, we had to, we didn't get to finish that one and he is needing a little extra time to recover. I think he's going to be really good in Miami. He's going to be ready. Just yeah, not playing this weekend, which is kind of nice. It gives him extra time to recover. And then yeah, we play, we play on
The next weekend we're the Palm Beach Passion. So we have Brandy and Melissa on our team and we play against the Miami team, the Mayhem, which is Trevor and Theo. And we also play against Dallas, Dallas Dream, which is Andy and Miles. So right off the bat, some tough matches for us. Yeah, I wish we had more time to kind of hear about your prep for that.
Talk later. Yeah, maybe maybe one quick like what is one big focus that you have going into those those games? You know one big focus of of getting ready preparing. I'm still thinking about it, but I I'm I'm like I'm actually going to go watch on Saturday a little bit and kind of want to see what it's like. I don't know you guys have ever watched the King of the court stuff before. Those are in Europe and I've played in a few of those. The.
Mark Burik (01:05:50.04)
There's a couple of things that I imagine it having in common with that. First of all, it's in an arena and an arena is are like when you're used to playing beach volleyball outside, it's kind of a sensory overload when there's like stuff all around you. Stadium arena type stuff. Plus there's also going to be like music lights, a bunch of things like that. So it really amps up the environment. Plus King of the court is super fast and furious. It's it starts fast and then it's really, really, really.
Fast -paced and these games are also fast -paced. are these sets are to 15. Yeah, I think that there's gonna be some major like Energy like anxious energy just in the in the air because it's so intense and it's gonna be Super important to be able to slow yourself down and like get off to a good start Because you don't want to fall behind like four to one in these games, know, they're over so quickly just yeah
That's been my focus so far, but I'm excited to see it on Saturday too. I kind of want to see like what do do? Do you go out and just like hair on fire and just rip as? Maybe that's the way to do it, but I also imagine you gotta like try to stay cool. We're gonna see. I'm glad I get to watch the first week instead of play the first week. Yeah, you'll figure it out. You'll you'll know it down. I hope so. At the end of the whole thing, I'll probably have it. Yeah, at least by week 7 you got it.
Congratulations, man. Thank you for your time, Avery. I'll let you go. No, it's cool. Nice to talk to all you guys and gals. Sorry, I don't have the camera on, but nice to talk to you guys. Awesome. Well, I love you, man. I hope you have a great rest of the day. And yeah, thanks again, You're welcome, dude. It's good to talk to you and good luck with you guys. Shoot me a message or something if you ever have more questions. Yeah, one last thing. Drop your Instagram handle.
in here said that they can keep up with you and any other plugs that you want to throw out there. I know you have an awesome sponsor. How do I even put it in my Instagram is just my name guys. It's just Avery Drost at every dress, but I don't know where the you don't even see where the chat is. I'll drop it in there for you. Okay. there it is. Yeah. I mean, any of the sponsor stuff is all there too. And those are
Mark Burik (01:08:15.97)
Thank God for them. so blessed to have those guys. yeah, instead whenever please say, say hi. Yeah, y 'all give him a hello and just keep up with this career and everybody. mean, that's the big part of beach volleyball is making sure that you got people checking in on you. So, and we'll let you go. Okay, bro. All right. We'll have a good rest of the day. Thanks guys. And I'm sure I'll, I'll run into you, talk to you some other time. Yeah.
